Heather Bayer
Today, I'm joined by Valerie Malone, an expert in transforming short-term rental spaces into unique guest enticing retreats. In this episode, we're exploring how innovative interior design can combat market saturation. We're going to look at the secrets behind catering to specific guest demographics and the delicate balance between trendiness and timelessness. Stay tuned as Valerie shares her insights on designing with sustainability in mind and how to make your property shine in a crowded marketplace.

Heather Bayer
This is the Vacation Rental Success Podcast, keeping you up-to-date with news, views, information and resources on this rapidly changing short-term rental business. I'm your host, Heather Bayer, and with 25 years of experience in this industry, I'm making sure you know what's hot, what's not, what's new and what will help make your business a success.

Heather Bayer
Well, hello and welcome to another episode of the Vacation Rental Success Podcast. This is your host, Heather Bayer, and I'm super delighted to be back with you once again as we get into December. Holiday times around, it's all very lovely around and about, even here down in Gulf Shores. I often thought, how do they celebrate Christmas where there's no snow? They do it extremely well. I'm getting festive, which is really nice since I'm not heading back to the snow for this Christmas. I saw a couple of posts recently about decorating a short-term rental for Christmas and for the holidays and how you should do it, when you should do it, if you should do it. It just got me thinking about the whole business of and design and how it is so important to creating a really attractive space.

Heather Bayer
I've done some podcast episodes in the past on design and decor, but it hasn't been for the longest time. I am super excited to have with me today, interior design strategist Valerie Malone. She's been making waves with her innovative approach to short-term rental design, bringing properties to life in ways that not only captivate guests, but also to have these properties stand out in an increasingly crowded market. Valerie wrote a blog post recently about using design to combat the Airbnb Bust. We know that the whole Airbnb Bust thing has been pretty much debunked, but it's still out there in certain places, in certain ways. I wanted to bring Valerie on to talk about how her expertise can help to identify and appeal to different guest demographics through thoughtful interior design.

Heather Bayer
She's going to uncover some common design pitfalls in short-term rentals and tell you how you can avoid them, ensuring that your place not only looks stunning, but is also practical and welcoming. But that's not all. She's also going to discuss the importance of local culture in your property's decor, the art of capturing stunning photos to showcase your design online, and how to achieve all of this even on a tight budget. For those concerned about the environment, which I hope is many of you, Valerie's insights on integrating eco-friendly practices in your design is a must-listen. We're also going to tackle the age-old debate - I think it's an age-old debate - of trendy versus timeless decor and how to find that perfect balance between esthetic appeal and functionality.

Heather Bayer
Plus, Valerie is going to share her tips on using vision boards for effective planning, selecting art that resonates with guests and the crucial role of guest feedback in continuously refining your interior design. So whether you're a seasoned property owner or just starting out, or you manage multiple properties and deal with many, many different owners, this episode is packed with actionable advice and innovative ideas to elevate your rental to the next level. Grab a notebook, get inspired with Valerie Malone on today's Vacation Rental Success Podcast.

Heather Bayer
I'm super happy to have with me today Valerie Malone from Quill Decor. I'm so excited about this because I just said to Valerie that I consider myself pretty incompetent at interior design, and it's going to be so much fun to actually talk about this and learn from a real expert. Valerie, welcome. Thank you so much for joining me.

Valerie Malone
Thank you, Heather. I'm so happy to be here. This is my favorite subject, so I can jump right in.

Heather Bayer
Okay, let's start with a little bit about your background, how you actually transposed your interior design skills into this industry. What made you choose this industry to come into?

Valerie Malone
So I have a background in commercial design as well as residential, and I fell into it like a lot of people. My husband and I had a basement apartment in a house we owned in a university town in Indiana, and we turned that basement apartment into a short-term rental about 10 years ago. So really before the game has changed so much as it is now in 2023.  But what I realized, I owned a residential design firm at the time, what I realized is that these Airbnbs were cropping up all over and people were starting to do more of it, but nobody was really focused on the design. And you can't decouple design from this business, because we are selling interior spaces, that in experiences and hospitality, and these things are all wrapped together. So my love of hospitality and design just led me towards focusing my business on short-term rental design. And here we are many years later.

Heather Bayer
I think it's so important. When I started out back in the late 1990s buying cottages in Canada, in Ontario, there was no such thing as interior design. I mean, just picture not-even log cabins, that old paneling, the wood paneling, the really, really cheap stuff.

Valerie Malone
The '70s kind that's like hollow?

Heather Bayer
Yes. Oh, yeah, the '70s paneling, '70s carpet, '70s curtains. Everything was brown and orange. Yes, orange.

Valerie Malone
And maybe some green thrown in.

Heather Bayer
Yeah, not a lot of green, but yeah, lots and lots of brown and orange and the beds. I remember looking at so many cottages when I started out as a property manager and every bedroom had grandma's old throws on it. I muddled through and I wish I'd had some experience in interior design to help me out. But we'll probably come back to this over the course of this conversation because there's so much I want to cover.

Heather Bayer
But I wanted to start out with the presentation you did at Jenn Boyles' Direct Book Success Summit and the consequent blog post where you talked about the problem of Airbnb Bust due to market saturation. This is something that came out, and everybody, I'm sure, remembers that viral Tweet that just fired up so much conversation around this. It's since been debunked, but it doesn't get away from the fact that we are in a hugely competitive environment now, whether you're in a saturated area or not. I want to kick off with how designing a place well and creating good decor can help owners and property managers stand out in a crowded market.

Valerie Malone
Well, I think it's important to remember that your competition isn't just other rentals. Your competition is hotels as well. Depending on where you are and how you're positioned in your particular market, you want to think about all of your competition and how to be like a hotel, which is well designed, but then even better, because as a long-term rental, you have the opportunity to have and supply things that hotels just can't, like a full kitchen and a living room. I think it's about allowing design to differentiate you, for sure, and knowing the market that you're in and what you need to be paying attention to. And in a lot of cases, if you improve your design, you're going to improve your bookings and your occupancy rate and potentially even your nightly rate. So I think, yes, the Airbnb Bust thing maybe has been debunked, but it does call to attention this opportunity to elevate yourself and your rental a little bit higher to not be boring, first of all, that's a goal.  But then also to not just be cookie cutter.

Valerie Malone
So what you have are a lot of properties that aren't designed at all. I'm doing air quotes. They're not designed, meaning nobody has actually sat down and thought about how the esthetics look, how they feel to be in the space from all the different angles, how the rooms flow from one to another, how your color palette flows all around the house, because you've got seconds to grab people's attention. I know we'll talk about photographs a little bit more, but if you are trying to appeal to somebody, you have seconds to grab them. So you want those first photos, or in some case, if they're on their phone, that first photo to be interesting and appealing enough to set you apart so that you get more seconds. And in those more seconds, then what are you going to do?

Valerie Malone
So my whole point with that presentation, the Airbnb Bust presentation, which is a blog post as well, is just how to be better.  How to elevate above and rise on top of your competition. And that design can really do that for you. I'm biased, obviously. This is my whole platform and how I run my business. But it's so important as a consumer as well. I'm constantly looking at the design of a place, all consumers are. You are, everybody is thinking about the experience and the design of the place where they're going to stay. So if you're going to grab people and be competitive, you've got to think about the design from multiple angles, ideally.

Heather Bayer
Well, we're going to come back in a few minutes to talk about local cultural themes. But I really wanted to share something with you. It's a discussion I had at the Vacation Rental Managers Association, the VRMA Conference in Orlando, a couple of weeks ago with Nick Halverson, who is the founder of OSA, Property Management in Uvita in Costa Rica. We were talking about new properties and new builds and how many people are coming in and building places. I was asking him about the rental potential as this market is becoming not necessarily saturated, but it's building up. He said the problem is that people are coming in with a generic Airbnb design. He said they all look the same. They're all white. There is no nod to the local culture. But I think this is where you're coming from here, is that people have got this idea, go on to an Airbnb and see this sterile - well, to me it's sterile - maybe it's minimalist. I don't know, whatever you want to call it.

Valerie Malone
I think soulless. I think soulless is the word you're talking about.

Heather Bayer
That's a perfect word. I think that's the word that Nick used. He said this is the issue that people are having when they're buying these properties, is they're just seeing something this soulless and thinking it will rent and it's not, in a crowded market.

Valerie Malone
Yeah, exactly. I think particularly when it is, like you said, those new build properties with the spec kitchen, there's nothing special. It's fine, it's nice, but it isn't interesting and it isn't special. Unless you have a property in an ideal location without 17 other identical properties right around it, you're going to need to differentiate yourself. You're going to need to spend some time on the design from the outset and to differentiate yourself with that design. It is a worthwhile investment if you do that, particularly in those boring spaces.

Valerie Malone
I can tell you my favorite way to add life to a soulless space is by adding things with soul. And how do you do that? You add old things. I love old things. I can make them work in any style, esthetic, whether it's modern and minimalist or a French vintage style, but finding ways to incorporate old... Like, for example, where did you say Nick was? Was that Nick's name?

Heather Bayer
Nick's in Costa Rica. Yeah.

Valerie Malone
In Costa Rica. So finding some interesting local that does some art with seagrass and pulling that in or just pulling in something from an old flea market that you would find in Costa Rica. Finding ways to get interesting things on the walls is really important, especially if you've got a new build space that's cookie cutter.

Heather Bayer
Yeah, and there's a lot of them. We're going to come back to that, but I wanted to just explore the whole thing of avatar, persona, whatever you call it, target audience, because not every type of design or decor is going to suit every audience. I know it's important to identify a target audience for a property. How does that impact you when you're talking to somebody? When you're talking to a property owner, how do you get them to think about the idea of the target audience?

Valerie Malone
Well, I think it's necessary, like you said, I think everybody who talks in this space, teachers and podcasters, and we all have preached about the avatar. Have the avatar, know who you're talking to so that you can market to them. So if you want, I can give you some specific examples of ideas.

Heather Bayer
Please, yes.

Valerie Malone
So let's say you have a one or two-bedroom place and you're trying to appeal to the digital nomad. Or you have your urban, potentially you've got cool coffee shops, or even if you're rural, sometimes you want to pull in that digital nomad who is going to be camping at your place for longer than just a week. So what's going to appeal to that particular avatar? It's going to be a really nice desk, really good chair to sit in. It feels comfortable and good Wi-Fi, I think everybody needs good Wi-Fi. But then also think about the Zoom background. It's important to that person. If you're a digital nomad, you're probably on Zoom calls all day. And it doesn't have to be incredibly difficult or fancy, but could you just do a wallpaper? Think about the wall behind the desk and then advertise that. Photograph it from that angle to make sure they know this is your Zoom background. You can say that this is your Zoom background if you work from here. So really appealing to that particular person.

Valerie Malone
Another might be multi-generational families having games and toys and baby gear. And I always say to people, if you don't particularly want to host babies, don't have the baby gear. But if you do want that multi-generational family, then you have to think about what are they going to be doing. You might need to add the fire pit. You might need to add the hot tub if your market calls for that. If you're in the Smoky Mountains, it might hurt you not to have certain amenities for that multi-gen family. So really digging in and doing your research of what that family is booking and what they want when they're booking. Is it the basement with the arcade games and the movie theater room?

Valerie Malone
Really understanding not only your avatar, but also what the avatar wants within that market is really important. And then another one I like to talk about is the double income earning couple. So maybe they don't have kids or they're empty nesters, but they're going to spend a little bit more for the luxury.  So what are those things that you can do to really set yourself apart and appeal to that group of people or those couples? It's probably bathrobes. Maybe it's partnering with the local spa and getting them a 10% off coupon, doing a little business with the local spa and offering them that. Having nicer furniture, and that will allow you to potentially raise your price. And then a bottle of wine. Really think about the experience, not just the space when it comes to these people.

Heather Bayer
So when you're doing this, you're doing your design according to your avatar... and absolute gold that suggestion you made about the Zoom background. I would never have thought about that, but actually including that on a listing and pointing to it, that's a terrific piece of advice. What about other elements of design, let's say, for your digital nomad? Would you look at the color and your soft furnishings and the bedding? Would all that come into it as well?

Valerie Malone
Definitely. So I think when it comes to selecting all of the other things, the easiest thing to do is to stand back and first select your style direction. What is your style genre that you're going after? And I wouldn't select a single thing until I know my audience. Who is my avatar? And then what is my style direction for this space? And what determines the style direction is the avatar, but also it's your location. Obviously, if you're in a beachy town, you're going to do a coastal style. But is it traditional or is it minimal? That you get to choose, and that's the fun part. But the things that will come into play when you make that choice are, what's happening inside of the space already? What's happening in the architecture? And if it's nothing, if it's a really boring box and you know you want to make it come to life, then you figure out the ways that you can do that. Get yourself on the internet, find some inspiration and look for ways that you can tangibly change the space and make it interesting and stand out and make it different from the other 12 units in that building that you know are also going to be rentals and your competition.

Heather Bayer
That's interesting stuff, and it just got me thinking about mistakes because I know I have made mistakes, lots of them, over the years, I had seven properties of my own, managed 200. I know I made comments to owners, perhaps from my completely non-design perspective, that may not have been as appropriate. So let's just take a little bit of negative here and look at some common design mistakes that you've seen people make when they are starting out.

Valerie Malone
I think the most common thing is that you just go start buying stuff or you start buying stuff without creating the plan, without really understanding what is my general color palette? What is my style direction? What am I after? What things do they just say? Oh, this is a great piece of art. I'll grab this and then this is some great pillows and I'll grab this. And then what you have is a hodgepodge of things that may or may not work together. And you probably don't have a real understanding of how to execute this massive undertaking, because if you're starting from scratch, it is massive. So spreadsheets are your friend. I highly recommend you put yourself a budget spreadsheet together. This is something I offer to my course students that I teach. I have a design course for rentals that anybody can take, because it is an overwhelming process, but I think anybody can do it.

Valerie Malone
It can be broken down to a little bit of a science and a step-by-step. So certainly you want an overall plan before you do anything. And I think that's probably the most common mistake. I would say too many paint colors before you're picking anything else.  So when you do anything without the whole picture, then you're going to end up confused and frustrated and probably really stressed and under the wire and maybe over budget.

Heather Bayer
Yeah, this is where I went. Everything you've said is exactly what I used to do. I buy a new place, but to give myself a little bit of slack here, I would do a trip out to Canada from the UK. I would find a property that I liked, get the ball rolling in terms of the purchase while I was there and head home. Then on closing day, I would arrive back out, go sign the paperwork, and I had a weekend....

Valerie Malone
Oh, my God. To furnish everything?

Heather Bayer
To furnish everything. So I worked with.....

Valerie Malone
Did they usually come with some furniture?

Heather Bayer
No, usually pretty empty. I worked with a local furniture company and we had all that pre-arranged, what I would have, and it was just about the same stuff that went in. But then I'd arrive and I'd go to Walmart. Thinking back 20 years coming out from where we never had Walmart. I was like a kid in a candy store. So my mistake was just buying everything cheap and then just going and buying. And exactly what you said about artwork. Oh, I like that one and I like that one. Here's some cushions and here's some bedding, just piled it all into the cart. And I just ended up with that complete mish-mash.

Valerie Malone
Right. Well, the thing is though, Heather, the way that things have gone to market, the way that we go to market now has completely changed in the last 20 years. And what you're able to buy online now is different from what it was 10 years ago. We didn't have the ability to put together a vision board and say, Right, I'm going to order all of this and then get it to the site. It's changed a lot in that way. And some things are not great, like fast furniture and how we are producing throwaway furniture now and how bad this is for the planet. That is a negative to the way that we go to market now, but there are some positives, and there are ways to avoid those furniture items and still be able to holistically look at the design on one screen, on your vision board and execute and bring that to life. I'll give you some slack. It was a different world 20 years ago and how you purchased anything.

Heather Bayer
Well, yeah, you said a couple of things there that I want to just come back on. One is 'fast furniture', we'll talk about that in a second. But the other is vision boards and online sources. So Wayfair, in particular. When I was doing my initial kitting out of properties, we didn't have Wayfair, we didn't have Pinterest.

Valerie Malone
Right, no.

Heather Bayer
Let's start with talking to me about vision boards. I've watched HGTV programs, and I've seen the designers come out with these wonderful vision boards and think, Well, how do you do that? How do you get started with that?

Valerie Malone
I can't really do anything without a vision board, if I'm honest. So it is the way I view the room in the quickest possible way. Of course, as a designer, you can do intricate drawings and 3D models and create things, but you don't really have to do that, especially if you're not doing structural changes. If you're just decorating, you can do flatboards. I use Canva, which is a.... everyone knows what Canva is, right? So it's an easy graphic design, cloud-based program. You can use PowerPoint if you would rather, or a similar program. But I just pull items into the board and move them around. They're a hot mess when you start out, and eventually you shape it to look like the room. It allows you to see the balance of the room. So if your curtains are on the left and the right side of the room, for example, you want to put them on both sides of your board. You can see the color balance of the curtains versus the other furniture. It allows you to step back. And like I said, you want that 30,000-foot plan. This is the 30,000 foot of everything that's actually going in the space, the actual sofa.

Valerie Malone
And if you go local for a lot of things, you can still create a vision board because you can find an image online of anything. So even if it's just a look-alike sideboard or a look-alike sofa, you still pull that in so that you understand the balance and flow and color of a room. So I think that's the tool that almost anybody can use and figure out with just a few hours of playing around. And it's really powerful, and it's a way to give you confidence with all of those purchases.

Heather Bayer
I'm sure you can find YouTube videos. You just put in vision boards in Canva and it will....

Valerie Malone
....of course, you can....

Heather Bayer
....show you how to do it. That's exciting. I might try that for my RV, which is my usual mish-mash of stuff. So tell me about Pinterest. Somebody sent me an email this morning about a Pinterest course. I used love, love, love Pinterest and haven't used it for a long, long time. And I'm just wondering if this is still a valid place for people to source ideas and to collate them.

Valerie Malone
Yes. So it absolutely is. I think Pinterest has changed a lot in the last several years as well. So I use it less for a source of inspiration, images, but I still do use it. Yeah, Pinterest is great. So before I am pulling together a vision board, the vision board has the actual couch and chair and art that you're thinking of using. Before I do that, I will do something that I call a mood board, which is just inspiration images of living rooms that I maybe want to emulate. I really like the moody, dark accent wall in this living room. I love how they pull the bookshelf decor together in this living room. So you're just clipping all these images onto one page that inspire you before you start selecting those items. So that's how I use Pinterest. I don't shop on Pinterest, although I think you can. I use Pinterest mostly now for finding little animals that I needle felt; I was looking to see if I have one. I make little wool animals. There's everything on Pinterest, everything creative is on Pinterest.

Valerie Malone
One of my favorite sources for... speaking of adding soul to things...., if you want to shop online for things that are not your big box stores, is to go to Etsy, which is just full of local sellers from around the world. You can change it down to make sure you're only looking at things that ship easily to you. But there is just a plethora of artisans and makers on there. Interesting art that is not just the thing that everybody has purchased from Target and thrown up in their rental. It'll really differentiate you and make you stand out. Look to etsy.com, E-T-S-Y. I'm sure most people know about Etsy. Yeah?

Heather Bayer
Yeah, but I've forgotten.... I forget about Etsy. I've bought so many things from Etsy, and I remember the most recent one that I was recommending to people was a little perspex thing that you put on your counter, which has a QR code for your digital guide.

Valerie Malone
Yeah, they do have some great resources.

Heather Bayer
Oh, my God, that is so simple to create. Somebody walks in, they might have your digital guide on their phone anyway, but there's a QR code and it's in that… Let me call it an A-frame. You know what I'm talking about?

Valerie Malone
Yes, right. You can get little Wi-Fi password printables for your kitchen counter. You can do all kinds of things. Etsy is a great resource.

Heather Bayer
Etsy is great. You also mentioned two things: fast furniture, and sustainability. Sustainability is something that I'm so passionate about. I spend a lot of time talking to Vanessa de Sousa Lage from Sustonica, Bob Garner from EnviroRental, so always want to mention those two guys because sustainability is going to be a theme for the next decade. If we're not getting into sustainability right now, then you're going to be missing out, because the next generation of people renting properties will be looking for sustainable features in a home. So you mentioned fast furniture, I'm thinking IKEA.

Valerie Malone
Not just IKEA.

Heather Bayer
Okay, elaborate. Tell us more. ...

Valerie Malone
Wayfair.

Heather Bayer
Wayfair as well?

Valerie Malone
Well, Wayfair is of course a plethora of brands. They are a seller. They don't actually brand all of their furniture; they are just a reseller. IKEA only sells IKEA branded furniture. So the thing about Wayfair is you have higher-end pieces that are better quality, and then you have some junk. So generally speaking, you pay for what you get. If an end table costs 100 bucks, it's probably not going to last very long.

Valerie Malone
I love Bob Garner. I love talking about sustainability and to really think about going high...., low where you can and buying quality [high] for what really matters. Most of your furniture does matter. It doesn't all necessarily have to be incredibly expensive. I love to go secondhand for some pieces and breathe extra life or new life into an older piece. I love old things, as I've said. And I know that's not for everybody, and it does, of course, take a little bit more time to source those secondhand things. But I've talked to so many hosts who love Facebook marketplace, whose places are stunning and they really get design and they know how to spot something excellent on Facebook marketplace and go for it. Whether it's perfect as it is or they refinish it.

Valerie Malone
I think just thinking sustainable when you're doing that furniture purchasing is so important. It is such a hot topic. You're right. The next generation does care. Our children care. My daughter is 12. She is an avid vegetarian and convinced she has to save the planet. So it is embedded in this younger generation. I've noticed some of my most popular blogs and clicks and my emails and my newsletters are about sustainability. So I think increasingly people do care. And there's all the things that Bob is talking about, and the other guy is LED light bulbs. If your area provides recycling, make sure that you provide recycling. That's one of the easiest changes that I think it is. It is a little bit more of a step for your cleaning team, but that kind of thing really does matter. Did I answer the question?

Heather Bayer
It then goes into another question that we touched on earlier on, was about local culture and incorporating local culture and themes into the decor of a short-term rental. Because often this local culture, the local artwork, this speaks to sustainability as well, because you're supporting local artisans, local suppliers, just people who make things locally rather than buying from the big box stores.

Valerie Malone
Right. I think too, the right way to think about it from my perspective is you are telling a story with your space. So although it's going to take more time to put that love and care and attention into finding those local pieces and making sure they work with the esthetic that you've planned and with the design, it's going to give you a story to tell. So it's going to give you the ability to talk about how you curated this house with these interesting local artists, which local artists you featured. You can write blog posts about it. If that's your thing, you can put it on social media. So it becomes something to talk about, which is great because it gives you more credibility to your potential guests. But it also, I think, makes it a bit more fun for the host. I would argue, that it makes it all feel a little bit more special to you as well as you're the one putting it together. So, yes, it's about occupancy rate and bookings and money, but it's also about loving what you do. And I think when you take the time to pour a little bit of your heart and soul into the property, that your guests feel that.  And it just becomes this full circle of... I don't know how to say it...., warm fuzzies.

Heather Bayer
Yeah, I love warm fuzzies.

Valerie Malone
It just becomes... it feels a little bit more personal in a world where AI is king and things are changing fast. I think the human connection is missing from a lot of things, but in a rental and in a short-term rental, we have the opportunity to still connect. Even if you've got many doors, there's still a way for you to connect with each guest and make their stay special, enjoyable and meaningful.

Heather Bayer
Yeah. I've seen over the last sort of 10 years, what I've thought about was the fast food of short-term rentals. Buy, investing a property, just do a cookie cutter set up and away you go, invest in the next one.

Valerie Malone
Throw away furniture. Yeah.

Heather Bayer
It's interesting how this will pan out over the next few years as saturation becomes more of the case.

Valerie Malone
Exactly.

Heather Bayer
Having said that, regulation seem to be cutting into a lot of that. To some degree, that's a good thing because the people with passion and vision, I think, are going to be the ones that win out on that.

Heather Bayer
I want to talk about timeless decor. You've mentioned vintage, you've mentioned going secondhand. Is that what timeless decor is about? Or... Yeah, you need to explain this.

Valerie Malone
I'm going to be real honest, Heather. I don't think timeless decor exists. I don't think there is such a thing as timeless, and I never encourage people to go hard on a trend or stray from a trend. It's more about really find the style that's going to work for your avatar, your person that you're trying to appeal to, and that's going to work within the setting, within the town that you're in, within the urban or rural setting that you're in, within the architecture that you have. Find what works for that space and then do your homework first before you buy a single thing and really do think about all of the decisions that are to come. I think that's the only timeless decor, is the well-designed space, the well thought through space.

Heather Bayer
Yeah, it came to me when I put a new kitchen into a cottage that we bought that we lived in for 15 years and I put this new kitchen in. And when we came to sell it 15 years later, it's like looking at the kitchen and thinking, Oh, it's really out-of-date now. Is that possible that you can create a kitchen or something that you spend a lot of money on that is going to last? Is there a particular style that is timeless?

Valerie Malone
Well, I will say if you're seeing something literally everywhere, for example, 10 years ago, chevron pattern was huge. It's like the zig-zag pattern. It was suddenly on every rug and every art and with everything. If you see something like that that is literally everywhere, you can be sure people will get sick of that, and that will turn over faster and become dated faster. I think there are safer decisions and then more risky decisions, but I don't necessarily think risky decisions are bad. I don't want to stray people from doing something risky, because that also might make you stand out. But I think do your research, know how you're going to fit in the market with whatever esthetic you choose, and then plan it out. Make sure you know how every decision is going to affect your overall design.

Heather Bayer
And I think you also need to take into account, if I do something now that fits in with the current trend, am I good with changing it out in a few years time? Right. So I think that's your risky versus safe. You risk that trend going out-of-date and having to do something else.

Valerie Malone
We watched a Christmas movie last night. I'm going to date this podcast. It was Deck the Halls from 2006 with Danny DeVito. We turned it on. It was from 2006, and my 12-year-old sitting next to me and I said, This was only from five years before you were born. It looked like it was from the late 90s in terms of the interior decor. It was shocking how deep red everything was and heavily patterned and lacquered with reds and golds. So yeah, I don't think there is timeless. I think things do change, and that's okay. But yeah, finding the ways to do, okay, if I'm going to do this thing here and it's trendy, is it going to be outrageously expensive to change that particular portion in 10 or 15 years? And then make your decisions that way.

Heather Bayer
When I went into the cottage rental market in Ontario, the decor was all bears. Everything was bears or there were moose or ducks. I have to say I had a little thing going with ducks at that time. Loons. I had loons everywhere.

Valerie Malone
Loons.

Heather Bayer
Now, even though you go to a cottage in Ontario, it's all waterfront, that's our thing up there, is that every property has its own private waterfront in the lake areas, and there are loons everywhere. But it does not necessarily mean you have to have them inside anymore, because I believe what people were looking for in the whole traditional cottage rental style 15 years ago is definitely not what they're looking for now.

Valerie Malone
There is a way to do loons and bears that isn't necessarily cheesy, too. Look for subtle ways to fold it in instead of it being like, bold and huge in your face, and big golden, laquered loons, life-size bears at the entry. That's not necessary.

Heather Bayer
There's still a lot of those around. I'm sure.

Heather Bayer
Let's talk about artwork, because that is something that I think everybody needs artwork in their space. But how do you choose it? I see a lot, if I'm looking around on Airbnb and just looking at properties. I know that one, that's IKEA.

Valerie Malone
Exactly. You don't want that. You never want someone to recognize the IKEA art in your rental. So just don't put it in there. That's the bottom line with art. So I actually yesterday sat down and outlined a class. I'm going to teach a class and put it on my site because I think this is a really common intimidating thing to shop for. It's very difficult. It's overwhelming. And it's hard to know how to... Okay, well, I can pick one piece of art, but how do I pick 14 pieces of art for the entire house and make them all work together. And how do I afford that? So it's a big undertaking, art. And there's no one easy do this thing. I think it's important, like I said, I feel like it's a great way to differentiate. And in a lot of cases and rentals, it's the most decor you can do because you don't want tons of things sitting around on the shelf. Your little tchotchkes [trinkets] can only take you so far in a rental. You don't want tons of them. They're going to need to be dusted. They're going to walk away. So you want to really think about what you can do on the walls to differentiate your space.

Valerie Malone
So it's not just art, it's wallpaper. I'm a big fan of wallpaper. I love it. Also, think a lot about it before you purchase or put it up because it isn't cheap, but it photographs super well, and it does make your place stand way out if it's done well. I'll give you some of my favorite rules about art. Bigger is better. So try and think about scale, the scale of your wall. If you've got a great big giant blank wall, try and do a great big giant piece of art there. And there are ways to do this that aren't outrageously expensive. There's all kinds of sources online. Etsy, we'll go back to Etsy, is a great way to find artists that are unique. And you can usually buy something called a digital download and then send that straight to a local office shop or printer to be printed, and then you can get your frame from IKEA, or from somewhere that's not outrageously expensive, and put it up.

Valerie Malone
So I think art is something to spend some time on and make sure it works with your overall design, and it's a great way to differentiate. So pay a lot of attention to your art. Don't go to IKEA and buy their posters because that's not the goal to be the IKEA, to be just like everybody else and to be recognizable for the IKEA art. We can do better.

Heather Bayer
I remember going to visit a property, this is before I sold my property management company, and I went to visit a property to assess it for coming onto our rental program. It was an investor who'd bought this property and clearly had just paid absolutely no attention to where he was. So it was the most glorious location on a lake, and I walked in. The first thing I saw was this enormous print of the Eiffel Tower.

Valerie Malone
I mean, that just goes without saying. Doesn't it? You would think.

Heather Bayer
I would have thought so, yes.

Valerie Malone
Sense of place, yes. Take into account the location before you purchase a single piece of art. Make sure people know where they are when they're looking at the decor on your walls.

Heather Bayer
I'll take another one. I have my wallpaper on my computers. It's a photograph that I took out on the beach here down in Gulf Shores a couple of years ago. It's a beautiful picture of the sand and the seagrass. It's not of the ocean, but it's looking back to… We've seen these photos with the boardwalk going off. But, I took this picture and I love it. That would not be appropriate in a Colorado mountain home. It wouldn't be appropriate in an Ontario cottage, even though it may be on sand. I certainly get what you're saying. So what about selecting artwork for different rooms?

Valerie Malone
Yeah. So it comes back to the vision boards. So if I have an entire house that I'm doing, I'm going to put all of the art on one board together. Even if it's something that I've bought locally, I'll take a picture with my phone, put it right into that Canva board so that I can see everything together and make sure it all flows. This doesn't have to match. But if it's going in the house together, with a rental, it's a bit different than a home because your first impression is all on screen, and they're going to see all of these pictures right next to each other. So they do need to relate and make sense in one way or another, whether that's color or location or style. I make sure they all go together. And what was the question?

Heather Bayer
It was about different rooms.

Valerie Malone
Different rooms, yeah.

Heather Bayer
Putting something in a bathroom. Do you put artwork in a bathroom at all? If you've got big space in your kitchen. I remember buying a property and thinking, Oh, what do I put in the kitchen? I found something in IKEA, which was a print of kitchen utensils. Can you imagine how bad that was?

Valerie Malone
I hope it wasn't giant kitchen utensils, like a life-size.  

Heather Bayer
No it wasn't, but it was bad and it was a small one and it really looked inappropriate. I have to say, give me my due, it didn't last very long in there.

Valerie Malone
Listen, I get that it's a lot to think about all of these things. Anything you're doing with a rental, it's tough because time is money. We want to get this thing on, we want to get it up, and we want to get it listed, and we want to start returning on investment. And so I understand all of that. But I'm going to say, what I've said the whole time, which is to slow down and try and curate these art pieces that you can actually open your rental without your art all being up. You can get it going and then add to things later.

Valerie Malone
So with art, I love sourcing from different places. I love secondhand for art. There is so much amazing art in England especially, and in America as well. But there are more beautiful frames and art out in the world than.... we wouldn't have to produce a single other thing if you go to any of these local vintage share stores. So yeah, finding second-hand things, finding old things, finding local things, that takes time. So you may want to slowly do it over time, depending on if you live near your rental or if you're flying in for a week and you've got to get it done. That's a different story. So I don't know. And that's a real designer-y answer because I think art should be crafted and it should take a little time. It is the expression of your home. It breathes life into your home. I will say I think that pictures and art of animals and people photograph really well and make a dull room come to life. So consider that when you're shopping for art.

Heather Bayer
So just people? Any people?

Valerie Malone
Like, look at the picture behind me.

Heather Bayer
Ah, I see. Yes.

Valerie Malone
So it's a Matisse pencil drawing figure of a woman's face. It's not somebody's photograph, that would be weird, but an old portrait if that works with your style. Or yeah, animals are really interesting as well. Yeah. So just try and think about breathing some life into the space with beautiful birds or interesting portraits or pencil drawings of figures, that sort of thing.

Heather Bayer
Can you give us some tips on shopping in secondhand stores? I watch these shows where people are shopping and they're bargaining. Is that something that you do?

Valerie Malone
Yes, I absolutely do. I do for every project that I touch, if I'm local to the project, and I encourage people to do it. And the way that I do it, I feel that makes it a little bit less risky, because you can't always take things back to those places. So you need to know that what you're buying is something that you really like and want to use. That's why I will do the design first. So I will do my plan, my vision boards, understand what I need, what sizes I need of certain things, and then I will go to the secondhand stores or the vintage fair or whatever it is, and I'll know that I need a piece of art for over the sofa that is between 50 and 80 inches wide that I know it has to fit in the space. And if it's any less than 50 inches, it's not going to work. So when I'm out there, I have my measuring tape, I have my vision boards on my phone, and I can say, Oh, this is exactly what I wanted. It's 70 inches and it's going to fit perfectly and it's in my budget, so I'm going to buy it.  And I know it's going to work and I feel confident that it will. I generally know what I'm after before I go looking at the secondhand things. Otherwise, you're just overwhelmed.

Heather Bayer
Do you always pay what is on the ticket?

Valerie Malone
That just so depends on where you are. I think if you're at a place that people do tend to bargain, then you absolutely should. And then there are some places where, culturally, that's just not done and they're not going to take less for it, and that's that. So I think just know your audience there.

Heather Bayer
Okay. Yeah. As I say, I've been watching some of these shows where they send people out to the secondhand stores to buy. You've got this amount of money, you're going to go and buy all these things, and then you're going to put them up for auction. So it's a little bit more, maybe not secondhand, but antique stores. Maybe that's a little bit different. I don't know. But they always do the bargaining. This is up for $65. Will you take $15?

Valerie Malone
Right. Well, you don't want to be insulting. But yeah, I think most of the time you can offer less. And if it's a Facebook marketplace purchase, people always ask if they can do less. And if they won't sell it for less, then they'll tell you. And you've not really offended anyone, unless you say $15 when they have marked it at $150, that might offend them.

Heather Bayer
Yes, that might be offensive. I go back years and years ago and maybe I had a design gene back in my 20s because I remember going to furnish my very, very first house and buying this amazing dining table and chairs. It was so inexpensive and it was a Victorian piece. Just absolutely amazing.

Valerie Malone
Oh, me too. Exactly the same. My first dining set was old. The table cost $100. I got it from a secondhand store and it then folded all the way down. I had it for years and served 10 people at that table all the time. It had leaves, it was....

Heather Bayer
Yeah, that's what I had and I don't know what became of it, but shame, years ago I lost that.

Heather Bayer
My gosh, Valerie, this is such an interesting conversation, and I know I could go on and on. I've just got one last question for you. It's about using the feedback that you get from guests. How important is it to get feedback from guests on the way that you've designed and decorated a property? And would you use that? At what point would you use that to make some changes?

Valerie Malone
I think, if it's constructive feedback about the comfort of something, you should jump all over that. For example, I have a client who said she has a beautiful black futon and it works in the room, but she got some feedback that it wasn't comfortable, so she's going to replace it. So that feedback should always be taken seriously, particularly if it comes from more than one guest. If it's just from the esthetic point of view, I don't think people usually give feedback. If you ask them directly, they might, but I'm not sure that that's the right place to turn, because unless that guest really is a designer or has a design eye, their one idiosyncratic opinion may not help you. I think if you want feedback on your place and the esthetics of your property, you need to go to a designer, or somebody that does design consulting like me, that could audit your property and help you understand, okay, if I have a couple of thousand dollars to throw at this thing, what would I do first? That's more important feedback than what one guest might say.

Heather Bayer
And that's a great segue into talking about Quill Decor and what you do offer to your clients, because I love that idea. I've got this budget, can you help me to spend it?

Valerie Malone
Yeah. So I have a design course, as I mentioned, where people can have a roadmap step-by-step for if you're furnishing an empty property, you don't really know design or have never furnished something from scratch.  It's a great step-by-step to understand the sourcing. What do I do first, then what do I do next? The budget, all of that.

Valerie Malone
But I also do consulting and just do one-on-one with clients, help offer feedback on their existing properties. I can do audits and I can do virtual design as well. So as you know, I'm based in Cambridge, England, which is where we live now. But most of my clients and my business is based in the US still, because that's where it was when I started it, and it's a big country. So I've kept it going there. I know the sources there really well, because I've done it there for so long. The right places to buy, the right things to buy. But I do work with people in England as well now.

Heather Bayer
Excellent. Well, we will put all this detail on the Show Notes, so that if anybody wants to connect with you, they can. If I still had my properties, I would be taking a course. It is so great to hear that that's out there. So all the information will be on the Show Notes if anybody wants to connect with Valerie and learn more.

Heather Bayer
Valerie, it's been an absolute pleasure. A huge pleasure to talk to you.

Valerie Malone
Thank you Heather, you too.

Heather Bayer
I've learned a huge amount. As I say, I might even think about doing a vision board for my RV. You buy these things and they all come, as you can see in the background. It's pretty typical, I can't even call it decor. It's definitely not been designed by a designer, I don't think.

Valerie Malone
Is that where you live full-time now?

Heather Bayer
No, this is… This is just the winter.

Valerie Malone
The winter in Alabama.

Heather Bayer
Winter in Alabama and summer in Ontario. But yeah, I shall put some of these things into practice. So thanks so much for joining me. It's been an absolute pleasure having you here.

Valerie Malone
Thank you, Heather. The pleasure was all mine. It was so lovely chatting.

Heather Bayer
Thank you so much, Valerie, for that great information. As I said at the beginning, I'm not a natural 'creative', if you like. I do what many people do, and that's just go for something that I really like and for one room and then go for something I really like for another room, and I realize now in all the times that I created my properties, I never had a flow from room to room. I never really thought about it. Now I really understand how it all comes together for the people that do have these amazing-looking properties.

Heather Bayer
I hope you enjoyed all that information from Valerie and that you will put it to some good use. Take a look at your property, do a makeover, create that vision board, and let me see the before and after pictures. I would love that. And of course, if you want to get hold of Valerie, then you can just go to the Show Notes and get the information on where to find her. You can also go to quilldecor.com, where you'll find loads of information about what Valerie does as a consultant and as a trainer. I think if you got the opportunity to work with her, you would find that incredibly rewarding as well as lucrative for your business.

Heather Bayer
So that's it for another week, really enjoyed being with you. And of course, I will be here with you again next week.

Heather Bayer
It's been a pleasure as ever being with you. If there's anything you'd like to comment on, then join the conversation on the Show Notes for the episode at vacationrentalformula.com. We'd love to hear from you and I look forward to being with you again next week.