Mike Bayer

You're listening to the Vacation Rental Success Podcast, andwe are proud to welcome back our returning sponsor, OwnerRez. Providing apowerful and flexible system for managing vacation rental properties, OwnerRezprovides booking and maintenance management, payment scheduling and collection,as well as insightful reporting. OwnerRez will provide you with a long-termbooking foundation that is scalable for your vacation rental business whilefully managing your channel listings, but still focusing on your brand, yourwebsite, and your way of doing things. If you sign up now using the promotionalcode VRF30, that's VRF30, you can get 30% off your first three months. Makesure you listen in to the mid-episode break where you'll hear some greattestimonials about OwnerRez and more about this incredible company. For moreinformation about OwnerRez, click on the link in the description of thisepisode on your smart device. Let's get started. Here's your host, HeatherBeyer.

Heather Bayer

Today I'm taking you inside the world of short term rentaljournalism. Paul Stevens is the editor of ShortTerm Rentalz at International Hospitality Media, and he reports on theindustry across the world, giving him a much wider perspective that few of ushave. We're talking about the differences and the commonalities of a globalbusiness and touching on things that impact you all. So I hope you enjoy thisgreat conversation.

Heather Bayer

This is the Vacation Rental Success Podcast, keeping you upto date with news, views, information, and resources on this rapidly changingshort-term rental business. I'm your host, Heather Bayer, and with 25 years ofexperience in this industry, I'm making sure you know what's hot, what's not,what's new, and what will help make your business a success.

Heather Bayer

Well, hello and welcome to another episode of the VacationRental Success Podcast. This is your host, Heather Bayer. And as ever, I amsuper delighted to be back with you once again. And as I record this, it is superhot outside and I am really quite enjoying it for once, sitting down in mybasement, even with the lights that I have over towards the other side of me,because we do video these conversations. I'm not sure if you realize that, butall of our podcasts go onto YouTube.  Andif you want to see who I'm talking to, you're not going to get much of aglimpse of my studio.  You will see whereI'm working from. And I know that some people quite enjoy to actually listen toa podcast and also to see the people who are chatting to each other. So forsure, go on over to YouTube and check out the recordings of all our podcasts.They're all out there and on there.

Heather Bayer

So I got to thinking the other day about the concept ofparochialism. And what parochialism is. It's a reference to a narrow-minded orlimited view of the world, which, as ChatGPT told me, often stems from a lackof exposure to, or consideration of diverse ideas, cultures, or perspectives.It can manifest as a form of bias or prejudice as individuals may be inclinedto judge or evaluate things solely based on their own experiences and beliefs,without taking into account a broader context. I relate to this because when wewere running our business here in Ontario, we often forgot that we were part ofa much wider North American business, and we tended to think it was very uniqueand different. But it wasn't until I started going to conferences andnetworking with people that I realized that there is this wider perspective onthe business.

Heather Bayer

And there's people everywhere who are doing exactly the samethings and experiencing the same issues and maybe managing them in differentways. And that was a lot of the learning that I took on by talking to peopleabout the different ways that they did deal with and handle things that cametheir way in our business. And I think this impacts many of us, particularly ifwe operate our businesses in one area, that we can have a really more of alimited perspective. There's an emphasis on our own locality or group, andwe're not as open or aware of broader perspectives or diversity in terms ofmany things, in terms of where our guests come from, where our owners comefrom, and where our vendors and the people who work for us come from. So I'mnot suggesting in any sense that we are all narrow-minded or self-centered. Butwhen we're immersed in our businesses on a day-to-day basis, it's so easy notto look outside our immediate box and see what's happening in the wider world.

Heather Bayer

So I've been going to conferences for years, and it was atone of these conferences I first met Paul Stevens from Short Term Rentalz.  It wasat Host 2019 in London, so it was in the November, a couple of months beforethe pandemic broke out. And it was a brilliant show. I loved it. There wassomething really different about it. But anyway, sadly, the pandemic put a holdon any more shows like that from that same company that produced Host 2019. Butwith the proliferation of conferences, summits, retreats, hosting events, wearen't actually short of choices. And how to choose between them all ischallenging. I love to talk about conferences, and I will be talking to Paulabout that. But also I get his thoughts on a range of topics that impact us,from a global as well as a local perspective. So without further ado, let'smove on over to my interview with Paul Stevens from Short Term Rentalz.

Heather Bayer

I'm super delighted to have with me today, Paul Stevens, whois the editor of Short Term Rentalzat International Hospitality Media. This is such fun, Paul, because we met backin 2019 at Host 2019, which seems like eons ago. It's a whole pandemic ago. Andwe very briefly talked then, but we had a much better discussion when we werein Barcelona a month or so back.  So youinterviewed me for Short Term Rentalz,so I'm getting my own back now. And I know this is probably a little bitunusual for you to be on the other side of the microphone, so welcome.

Paul Stevens

Thank you very much, and honestly I'm really flattered to beon this podcast as well. And so close to your 500th episode. So congratulationson all the success and it shows the respect the industry has for you.

Heather Bayer

Well, thank you somuch. Yeah, hitting that milestone was something else. And I reflected back,oh, my gosh, it's nine years since we started this, and we have not missed aweek in nine years. And I envy some of the podcasters who do well, do a seasonof 10 episodes, and then I'll take five weeks off.

Paul Stevens

Yeah, I know that feeling as well. But it's funny, youmentioned that introduction there. But I think when we spoke in Barcelona, wecouldn't quite remember where we'd met each other before. We knew we had, butwe couldn't remember the event.

Heather Bayer

And that host 2019 was so... I don't know, there wassomething about it. I don't know if you felt the same because you go to a lotof conferences. There just seemed something about it that was different. It wasvibrant and they had all the little educational stuff, but it was almost... Sothe exhibitors were in the middle and the education was around the edges. Thiswas a little bit different from what we normally see. What did you think aboutthat one?

Paul Stevens

Yeah, I mean, Host feels like such... A long time ago, asyou mentioned, that was 2019 prior to the pandemic, and you think of all theother topics that sprang up or the speakers that emerged. I just remember thiswas, I think it was a one day conference, and I just remember the absolute buzzin London. And that was, again, before anything where we'd gone six monthswithout being able to see each other or just talk on Zoom like we're doing now.But I think that's given the framework for people to look at what other eventscan do really within the space. We have these breakout stages and thenetworking. I think that's really what stands out with a lot of these events aswell. Everyone always tells me the networking is the key thing that they'rethere for, and that's almost covers the entrance fee, really. But I think astime has gone on as well, the quality of the agendas and being able to thinkoutside the box, evade maybe the usual carousel of people that you get in theindustry talking and look further afield. I think people really, really valuethose insights as well.

Heather Bayer

Well, you organize events. We're going to come on and talk alittle bit more about the Short TermRentalz events a bit later on. But forgive me, I haven't even introducedyou, really. You're the editor of ShortTerm Rentalz. You're a journalist. What got you into this current role?Because I looked through your LinkedIn profile and you've done some stuff.You've done a month's internship with the [Daily]Telegraph in their sportsdivision. Give us the back story.

Paul Stevens

Yeah, actually it was just a week on the Telegraph. Youcould literally put a week in the LinkedIn profile. But yeah, that came backactually through a contact through my family and me being a big sports fan as Iam. Football and tennis are really my big passions in life. The week that I gotto do the Telegraph was the week that the football season was starting upagain, or soccer, as some of your listeners will use that term. But the seasonwas starting up again, and they effectively asked me, Would you like to do acouple of previews for the football season. And of course, I was not reallygoing to refuse that opportunity. So I got, I think, three bylines in the spaceof a week. And if we just got as many additions as we could, just pick them offthe tables. And that just gave me such a buzz, really, to be part ofjournalism. And I remember the Ashes was on and the Ashes is on at the moment,the cricket. But I think sports and travel, I think when I left university,because I'm actually a languages graduate and I studied French andSpanish.  So it was quite a naturalprogression, really, into travel. But I always knew it was going to be travelor sports. And I guess here we are now.

Heather Bayer

Actually, I suddenly realized we have so much in common. SoI'm learning Spanish, the Duolingo message, on a 61 day streak now. So I've got500 words.

Paul Stevens

What's your record, though?

Heather Bayer

I don't know. I'm not paying much attention to those stats.Football, I've just finished the entire season of Ted Lasso, so I knoweverything about football. And as far as tennis is concerned, I'm sorry, I'm apickleball player.

Heather Bayer

So let's go back to rentals. So what got you into short-termrentals, then? What was it that came out and said, oh, yeah, let's go into thisindustry?

Paul Stevens

I think everyone says across the 500 or 501, 502 episodesthat you've done, I would be sure that a lot of your guests would have saidthat they've fallen into this space by accident. I'm quite young, I'm 28, andit was only five years ago, six years ago, I graduated from university, had afour year course. I was studying for three of those years. I had a year inFrance for part of my degree. Came out of university, like a lot of people, notreally quite sure what I wanted to do. And it feels like such a big decision,making the first step into your career, really. I did a couple of internshipsand just really trying to get myself on the ladder in journalism, which is, aswe know, very difficult to do. So I did a short course, really, in journalismfor six months in Brighton here in the south of England. And that equipped mewith, I think, a lot of the skills that I've been able to take forward, maybenot so much shorthand, but things like just how to structure stories and how tointerview people and all sorts of different skills.  And within a month of finishing the course, Iwas just looking around and trying to see opportunities that would be ofinterest. And I landed on here at International Hospitality Media. And forthose who don't know us, we've got these four B2B hospitality, travel, and realestate segment websites. So we've got ShortTerm Rentalz that everyone knows about with Z at the end. We've got Boutique Hotel News, Service Department News, and Urban Living News.  So really covering the broad landscape oftravel, hospitality, real estate. And at the time, Short Term Rentalz was just starting out and they wanted someone tocome in and launch that. And here we are now, coming up to five years later.And I can honestly say it's been such a whirlwind when you consider that we'vegone through pandemic, we've gone through geopolitical disruption, businessesshutting. It's been a really difficult time. But at the same time, we'vepossibly been able to position ourselves as quite a respected source in theindustry and love getting the opportunity to meet new people and get the chanceto converse with you as well.

Heather Bayer

So I think Short TermRentalz may not be as well-known in the US as maybe other short-term rentalnews publications. So I want this out there for people to go to Short Term Rentalz because I guess I'vebeen doing this for about a year, and every so often I land on the page and Istart reading through some of the articles and there's such a wide perspectiveacross the globe because you cover from Asia and Europe and the North Americasand just everything that happens across the world. And it really is interestingto see the commonalities between us all. We're not much different, whether we'reoperating at a small property management company in Delaware or something inSydney, Australia.

Paul Stevens

I completely agree, Heather. And one of the things with Short Term Rentalz and that we've reallytried to push, maybe as we've grown our presence more in the States andattending more events is there's still in some ways this perception thatbecause we're UK-based, we cover UK stories and we cover Europe. I think ifpeople really take the time to look, we've covered stories just this week in regulationsin Malaysia, we've covered Sweden, we've covered Saudi Arabia. There'ssomething happening everywhere in the world, and I could honestly write double,triple the number of stories that I do. But definitely some commonalities, andwe can talk about some of those as well in this interview. But every market isalso distinct in its own way. And I think it needs that representation on themedia stage, on events as well. Our audience is actually 60 % US based. I thinka lot of that comes down to just the stories that you're covering in thatregion and the shared volume of people. But we're part of a much wider industryand I think there's a lot of opportunity for us to keep growing and keepproviding coverage of these markets.

Heather Bayer

Yeah. In the introduction, I talked about this new term ofmine, parochialism, where we tend to concentrate on the local aspect, thethings that are going on in our immediate surroundings and not looking outside.And I think it really is important to understand that the industry goes muchwider than where we currently are. I wanted to get your thoughts on somethingthat's happening in.... it seems to be percolating at the moment, and I don'tknow if it's going to do a percolate and then blow up. I mean, how do percolatorsblow up? I don't know. But what seems to be coming up is a divide between theprofessional property managers and hosts, and what are we calling ourselves?Are we calling ourselves short-term rentals? Are we calling ourselves vacationrentals or holiday lets. I don't know if you've listened to any of the recentpodcasts, the panel that Will Slickers did, which was interesting.... I'll puta link to these on the Show Notes. The No BS podcast where they interviewedBill Faeth. That was a really interesting one because that got me thinking, Oh,this is percolating quite strongly now in terms of what we are callingourselves.

Heather Bayer

Now, you went to Skift recently in New York. How would youdescribe Skift before I go on? How would you describe it?

Paul Stevens

As a publication?

Heather Bayer

Yeah. It's a travel... Is it aimed at travel executives?

Paul Stevens

It's pretty much a business intelligence platform, I guess Iwould say. Whereas Short Term Rentalzis solely focusing on short-term rentals in all different parts of the world. Iguess Skift possibly does it on a broader scale. They're looking at differenttravel verticals as well. Airlines, tours and activities, which is a reallyinteresting space right now as well.

Heather Bayer

Did this come up at all in discussion while you're at Skiftwith that slightly different audience?

Paul Stevens

They had so many presentations throughout the day coveringso many different topics. And it comes up to now as we're trying to organizeour own agenda for a summit in October. But I think you're absolutely rightabout what exactly do we call this industry right now? What might have startedout as short-term rentals, vacation rentals. Now you're starting to see someblurring of the lines, really. And you've got these terms such as flexiblerentals coming up as well. And what even is a short-term rental now? That'salmost the hardest question in this industry. What was 30 days or less could beinterpreted in different ways now. Of course, with our website as well, we'relooking at this convergence and blending between asset classes and servicedepartments and on the urban side as well. But it's interesting and I'm notsure what you think about it, but I think if you ask regulators, I think theywould see short-term rentals and vacation rentals. They probably group themtogether as the same thing or something, and they're just thinking that this isthey're all the same properties and creating disruption in neighborhoods, butit's much wider in reality, as we know.  Andin terms of, if you're looking at guest demographics, or if you're looking atlength of stay and the rise of 'workations' and 'staycations' as well.

Heather Bayer

Yeah, that's interesting because the pandemic brought outthe digital nomads and the longer workations. And yeah, it's reallyinteresting. But I have to say, if we had to change the name, then both you andI are in a pickle.

Paul Stevens

Yeah, exactly. We have to stick with the Z as well, but it'sinteresting. Veering off topic slightly here, but I did a story about a companycalled The Thinking Traveller a couple of weeks ago, and it's a luxury villarental company here in Europe, and some people may know it. And it wasinteresting that they had undergone this brand refresh where they wereessentially taking out the word rental from their branding and marketing. Andit just got me thinking whether that word rental now is almost, I don't want tosay a taboo word, but maybe people are going to start shifting away from thatand we're going to see new terms popping up all the time.

Heather Bayer

That's an interesting one. I hadn't thought about that. I'mactually on The Thinking Traveller website. It's not....

Paul Stevens

We met the founders at Skift, actually, and interestinglyenough, they just walked right past us. So if Hugh is watching this, then itwas great to meet you.

Heather Bayer

Yeah, I'll take a look at that, because that's a reallyinteresting topic, that whole take rental out of it. Not going there right now.

Paul Stevens

You'd need a whole other podcast for that.

Heather Bayer

Yeah. But it will be interesting to see how this moves on.Will we be changing what we call ourselves? I just hope we don't end up saying,okay, let's get rid of vacation rentals and short-term rentals and holidaylets. So we'll just call ourselves Airbnbs.

Paul Stevens

Yes. We know that there's this big move trying to stop thishomogenisation of calling short term rentals Airbnbs. I guess some people couldfeel completely indifferent about this. But I guess that probably the crux ofwhat the industry is getting at will always remain, but it's just going toevolve over time as it's probably done over the last 10, 20, even three yearsif we look at the pandemic.

Heather Bayer

Yeah, exactly. I will put links to both the Will Slickers'panel and the No BS Podcast episode with Bill Faeth, because, as I say, thatwas an interesting one. I did wonder after that whether I should start droppingF-bombs throughout my podcast. Is that going to get me a lot more listeners?

Paul Stevens

I'll try and keep the expletives on the down low this time.

Heather Bayer

Yeah, but both of those episodes make really good listensand really get you thinking about what's happening outside your local business.

Heather Bayer

We're going to take a short break just now to hear about oursponsor, OwnerRez, directly from one of their clients. We'll be back to ourinterview in just a few moments.

Dave Bruder

Hi, my name is Dave Bruder, and along with my wife, we own andmanage a total of four vacation rentals between the beautiful Smoky Mountainsin Tennessee and the sunny beaches of Siesta Key, Florida. We've been operatingfor 10 years and using OwnerRez for about seven years now, and OwnerRez hastruly transformed the way we grow and manage our vacation rental business. Whenwe started adding more properties, we quickly realized that manual tasks werebecoming our biggest obstacle. That's where OwnerRez stepped in and it made allthe difference. With its advanced features and automation, OwnerRez has savedus countless hours of manual work. From guest communication to automatedprocesses, OwnerRez has become the backbone of our vacation rental operationsand book direct strategy. OwnerRez powers a seamless and professional bookingexperience directly through our website. One of the standout features ofOwnerRez is its powerful channel management system. Having a single dashboardto manage availability, rates, discounts, and content across multiple channelshas been a game changer. I can't imagine trying to make updates for our fourproperties across six different channels without the efficiency and controlprovided by OwnerRez. Moreover, their seamless integration with third-partycompanies to manage things such as door lock automation and cleaning apps hasfurther streamlined our operations.

Dave Bruder

Throughout our journey, the OwnerRez team has been there forus, providing excellent support whenever we needed help. Their support articlesare detailed and well written, making it easy to find solutions for anyquestions or challenges we encountered. Additionally, their commitment to beingopen and transparent is evident through their enhancements in communication andengagement with the user community. They listen, track feature requestspublicly, provide valuable feedback, and genuinely care about their userexperience and our ability to conduct business with our guests. In all honesty,I cannot recommend OwnerRez highly enough. It's been an invaluable platform thathas made managing and growing our vacation rental business a breeze. If you'relooking for a comprehensive and reliable solution, OwnerRez is the way to go.

Heather Bayer

Well, that was a great testimonial. Now back to ourinterview.

Heather Bayer

Let's move on to the Shortyz Awards because this issomething that's developed over the last couple of years and it really took offthis year. So can you tell us what the Shortyz Awards are and where they'regoing?

Paul Stevens

Yeah. So it's funny now when I go to events or speak topeople, sometimes more people have heard about the Shortyz than our actualwebsite, which is quite an interesting phenomenon. But yeah, essentially theShortyz Awards are global awards ceremony, in person we hope, for the global short-termvacation rental industry. And we started it back in, well, 2020, would youbelieve? We had the first edition of the awards in March 2020, and were verylucky to get it in. We did it on a boat cruising down the Thames. And I thinkthat really set the tone for the next few years, really. It's a different typeof awards ceremony where it's not a black tie, it's not an incredibly formaltype of event. We will change the location each year to have something that'scompletely unique and memorable. In some ways, it is like us being a host forguests as well, because we've had people, we've had the awards on a boat. Thesecond year, we were in lockdown, so we had to record the whole thing on Zoom.Third year, we were on a rooftop balcony overlooking the Tower of London. Thisyear, we were at the big [ArcelorMittal] Orbit sculpture outside the OlympicStadium.

Paul Stevens

That's something that's quite big for us. But we have these20 categories. There will be a couple of minor changes and tweaks each year, butessentially, the awards are open for everyone really within the industry,covering hosts, property managers of all sorts as well, of urban or leisuremarkets. We've got categories for channel managers, booking platform,membership platforms, glamping - camping-type - providers as well. We've triedto create an awards that is as diverse and inclusive as possible. I thinklooking back to 2019 when my boss and I co-conceived this idea. We justthought, why is there not an awards ceremony that is synonymous now with theindustry? I guess we just had that moment of thinking about it. And we're ayear into the website and I guess it's gone from strength to strength. We hadalmost 400 entries this year. We had about 60,000 votes in five days. It's justreally captured the imagination of the industry. I would hope that a lot morepeople will continue to get involved.

Heather Bayer

You said you had a lot of votes. How are they judged?Because I see some of these, there have been awards out there and it's justlike, people get out and say, Everybody vote for me and keep voting and youcould have as many votes as you can press the button.

Paul Stevens

Yeah, absolutely. I think perhaps to some degree, initiallythere's some cynicism based perhaps on people's traditional perception ofawards that it's always sponsors and people's friends winning. So we very muchtried to eliminate any type of bias. And we've got a judging panel, again, thatchanges each year and we try and get a broad range of perspectives as well.Each judge, hugely experienced and diverse range of individuals, again, fromshort-term rentals and broader hospitality landscape as well. They'll typicallybe judging maybe two or three categories before we advance to a shortliststage. And that's really when you start seeing all the buzz on social media andpeople, they want to shout about making a shortlist, which is a big achievementin itself. And then ultimately, the winners would be decided by a 50-50 splitbetween the judges' scores and the public vote. I think we've come across amodel that is fair and reflective of the companies and individuals that deserveto win. There could be so many deserving winners each year, but I hope peopleappreciate what we're trying to do. And each year, we're learning andimproving. But I think and I hope we're onto something good there as well.

Heather Bayer

When is the next Shortyz Award taking place?

Paul Stevens

I don't know if we have a full confirmation of dates yet. Iwould probably have to ask someone else that. But I think we're looking atApril '24 in London, which will be the fifth edition. And we timed this aroundanother event in London called the Short Stay Summit. And again, Diane, Mike,Mary Lee, the STRA, VRMA, and EHHA [European Holiday Home Association], all ofthese organizations coming together to create this. And so people can come fromfurther afield. We've had people from Australia, New Zealand, as far afield asthose. We had lots of South Africans coming over to London this time as well. Soit's a really hugely creative mix of people and different industry leaders and,of course, the networking, which is important as well. Can we actually say onthe podcast that I think we've got to confirm that you're going to be a judgefor 2024 as well. So this is probably the first time that we can announce that.

Heather Bayer

Thank you.

Paul Stevens

Very happy to have you.

Heather Bayer

I'm delighted. I really am delighted. I'll look forward toit very much. And it's a good excuse to come to London.

Paul Stevens

Absolutely. And April, the weather is good as well. If it'sanything like it is today, then yes, it's a great time of year. And there's alot of other events happening in Europe in the days and weeks after that.

Heather Bayer

I think that's an important point because I wanted to comeonto this. You go to a lot of conferences now. I don't know if Host 2019 wasthe first one you went to, but now you go to many.

Paul Stevens

The first one I actually went to was a hotel event in Paris,but the first industry event I can remember, maybe KigoWorld in 2019.  So again, that was quite an age ago there.That's four years already. But yeah, we get to go to a couple more events nowand enjoy it.

Heather Bayer

Yeah. So you go to all these events. We talked about Skiftbeing a very different conferences. What stands each one apart, do you think? Imean, we were at the Short Stay Week in Barcelona, which I absolutely loved.And then Damian [Sheridan] and Gianpaolo [Vairo] did such an amazing job withtheir team, just putting on something together, which was different conferencesevery day. It's like doing five conferences in one week.

Paul Stevens

I can't envy their situation. But to be fair to them,fantastic job and loved it. Would highly recommend your audience to attend.

Heather Bayer

Yes, absolutely. But that was very different from what youmight experience at a VRMA Conference. Very different from what you'dexperience at the Short-term Rental Wealth Conference, which I haven't been to,but I certainly have heard about, which is no more... I don't know how todescribe it because I haven't been there, but it sounds different. So whatstands each apart from the other? Do you have to go, do you think, with adifferent mindset for each one?

Paul Stevens

It's funny because I remember in our interview at the ShortStay Week, you called the event VRMA on steroids, which I absolutely love.We'll definitely use that quote again. But I think it is good that every eventhas its own representation and stands out and differentiates itself against therest. Because if everyone tried to copy each other with the location or withthe types of sessions or formats, then that would be boring. I'm not sureeveryone would necessarily want to attend. I think ultimately, probably somefoundations that you need at every event. You need plenty of networkingopportunities, and we're starting to see more bonding activities as wellbesides that. In Barcelona, there was a boat event the night before. The finalday I was there, and that was fantastic. Just getting people outside of thosedifferent settings, really. So you don't have to always talk business. I thinkthat that's increasingly important and people value being around each other andhaving high quality conversations as well. I'd say now something that helpsindustry events to really stand out as well, high quality, high caliberspeakers, but also the opportunity to provide a platform to create, establish,forge new thought leaders, really within the space.

Paul Stevens

And I think if we talk about industry representation andhaving diversity on stage, I think the organizers, including myself, need tolook beyond the figures that we see on a lot of these panels as well and justlook to have a good variety of people who are experienced and you can rely ontheir expertise. But also what does a new property manager, or host, or techprovider or, I mean, all analysts, all sorts of people, what perspective canthey bring? And this industry is so accepting that people will listen tonewcomers and they'll want to learn from them. So yeah, hopefully that sums itup quite well.

Heather Bayer

Yes. The reason I called it VRMA on steroids was because itseparated out all the different types of host or property manager. So I knowVRMA have gone to talking about welcoming smaller managers, but I've spoken tosmaller managers who said they went there and they just didn't feel thatwelcome. Whereas at the Short Stay Week you had the Book Direct Show, wherethere were a lot of independent hosts as well as small managers, and then ScaleRentals, which welcomed smaller managers one day and then the bigger managersthe next day. And to me, it sort of just blended. It was like a progression ofhow we are going through the industry. And I think that was great for thepeople to see that at the start, to see where they could go. And there was agreat caliber of vendors. It wasn't overborne with vendors. The ones who werethere were highly respected vendors, and they just seemed to come with adifferent attitude as well. Maybe that was just me.

Paul Stevens

Because you went to Las Vegas VRMA International, am Iright? But you've been in other years as well. How have you seen that progress?

Heather Bayer

I've been going to VRMA International Conferences sincearound 2012, I think. Been to a lot of them and they're just so massive now.You need an aircraft hangar for the exhibitor space, which in itself is okay ifyou want to go and it's like going into a massive mall or just scrollingthrough Amazon.

Paul Stevens

Las Vegas was my first experience of a VRMA International aswell. And you're only hearing stories from the people about what it's actuallylike. Nothing can really quite prepare for 2,000 people in the same room. I thinkwe obviously want to increase our presence in the States and be attending moreevents. I think also when we attend other events as well, you're looking atwhat works, maybe what doesn't work so well, and really how you can improve andmaybe also differentiate yourself from other events in the market. But Ibelieve I'm going back to VRMA International this year, and fortunately, I'vebeen given my first opportunity to speak on a panel as well.

Heather Bayer

Excellent.

Paul Stevens

I'm looking forward to that. And hopefully, there'll be alot more people coming over from Europe or other parts of the world. It was anamazing experience.  

Heather Bayer

I will be in Orlando too. I'm on a panel as well. So yes, wewill get to speak in person again.

Heather Bayer

I want to go back a bit to what we were talking about at thebeginning. So we talked about commonalities and differences. Well, we talked alittle bit about differences, but you've got a session at the Short Term RentalSummit in London with the working title at the moment of SustainableHospitality: Unlimited Desire Versus Limited Resources. And I wanted to bringup this topic of sustainability, because I believe it's a massive topic goingforward in this industry. Booking.com have been doing surveys for the pastcouple of years on sustainability. The stats, which they are bringing up sayingthat people are booking more sustainable properties and they're actually goingout and looking for them now. And of course, with the real pioneering work thatBob Garner and Deborah Labi are doing, and Vanessa de Souza Lage, of course,with Sustonica. So there's some pretty powerful voices now in this world ofsustainability. And I wanted to ask you, with all your connections across theworld seeing what's going on, how important do you feel that the wholesustainability issue is going forward to 2024 and beyond?

Paul Stevens

Well, I guess, first, I should say, actually, it's great tosee... I mean, Bob is, I think, the ultimate or the real crusader for this. Andnow we're starting to see more people listening and highlighting sustainabilityand creating businesses that revolve around this as well. So we feel that it'sa responsibility of us as a media publication to be covering it in ourpublication and following through with that on events as well. So you mentionedwe've currently got this working title of Sustainable Hospitality: UnlimitedDesire Versus Unlimited Resources. I guess intentionally, we've tried to createquite an intriguing or eye-catching headline there, and there may still be sometweaks to that. But at the crux of it, really, what we want to show is that wewant to, perhaps, cut some of the BS and really show that now is the time totake action and putting sustainability really at the heart of our agenda andbeing a key topic.

Paul Stevens

We want to actually show businesses how they can takemeaningful action. And for companies that are going to be represented on stage,they'll have the opportunity to talk about how they're weighing up the cost andbenefit and really testing how far they are committed to working and promotingsustainability.  Because as we all know,there are issues with some 'greenwashing' as well. And I think we can have areally impactful conversation in London. So I hope people are looking forwardto that.I've interviewed Bob and I've interviewed Vanessa on the showrelatively recently. I mean, it's great to see that those initiatives that seemto have started with Bob before the pandemic, and he has just kept with it andworked at it and worked really, really hard to bring EnviroRental to us - therewill be a link to EnviroRental in the Show Notes as well - because that's him.And of course, a link to Sustonica, and I'll put a link to Deborah's new courseas well, because it's something that is very dear to my heart.

Heather Bayer

I live in an area where there's a lot of greenwashing goingon. People talk about being sustainable and adopting sustainable practices, butthere's a lot of talk and nowhere near enough actual action. So it will beinteresting to see how this goes on going forward.

Heather Bayer

Before we finish, Paul, just talk about any morecommonalities that you see between all these, what appeared to be differentoperations throughout the world. Regulations, I guess, is one of them. We'reall impacted by regulations. How is that showing up in different areas? Youmentioned Malaysia earlier on.

Paul Stevens

Regulations is one of the most pressing issues in the wholeindustry right now. I guess all of your listeners will probably be experiencingsome sort of regulations or hearing through the grapevine about thingshappening close to them. In Malaysia, just to quote one example, they'retalking about nationwide regulations potentially being brought in as early asnext March. In the UK, for example, as well, Scotland, Ireland, Wales, England.There's so many conversations about licensing schemes. I know Fiona Campbelland the team of Association of Scotland's Self-Caterers are doing a great jobin actually getting media coverage out for this and being a real voice for theindustry. In the European Union, we're even talking about blanket rules acrossthe whole block, which again, I'm not really quite sure how all of thesedifferent legislation would necessarily be brought in. Actually, as we weretalking about at Skift just a few weeks ago, because I happen to beco-moderating a panel on regulations, and it's really looking now at how we'regoing to establish these strategic regulatory frameworks as well and reallycommunicating with regulators and authorities. It could just be something assimple as actually showing the value that short-term rentals bring to theeconomy.

Paul Stevens

It might have to be a slight change of tack or different wayof getting that message out there. But we've definitely got to keep thecommunication going. I think we've got to perhaps look at how we change widerpublic perception as well about this industry and emphasize perhaps how webenefit communities and neighborhoods rather than just this myth, maybe wecould say, but it's all take and it's all disruption. It's a valuable marketand vertical in travel and hospitality that deserves respect as well. And ifthe pandemic is anything to go by, then the growth that we're seeing will onlycontinue. And travel, I would say as well, is one of those luxuries that peopleare not going to compromise or give up. People want to travel. There's alwaysgoing to be opportunities out there. And it's for us to take advantage of thatdemand now.

Heather Bayer

That is a great note to wrap up on. I think everybody that'sinvolved in this industry needs to be involved, not just involved in theparochial level.

Paul Stevens

Parochial. Coming back to the start. I love that word.

Heather Bayer

Yeah. But to see what's happening outside of your own spaceand what you're doing has an impact on other places and what's happeningoutside has an impact on you.

Heather Bayer

Paul, it's been absolutely great to chat again. I will lookforward to seeing you in Orlando and in the UK next April.

Paul Stevens

Yes. Well, thank you again, Heather, for inviting me. It'sbeen a real pleasure and honor to be on the podcast. Here's to another 500episodes as well.

Heather Bayer

I'm working on it. I'm working on it. Thank you so much.

Paul Stevens

Thank you.

Heather Bayer

Thank you so much. Paul Stevens from Short Term Rentalz witha Z [zee], Z [zed] if you're in England. That means R, E, N, T, A, L, Z. I willput the link on the Show Notes along with all the other links that we mentionedin this episode. Don't forget that there is a full transcript now of thepodcast on the Show Notes. We were asked for that for years, people said, Canyou do as a transcript? And we did research that and the cost of doingtranscripts was just crazy. Now, of course, it is immediate, it's automatic.The moment we finish speaking, we have a full transcript all done by AI. Yes,you can go read the transcript. I like it. I like reading transcripts of otherpodcasts. You hear something, particularly if you're out on a walk or whatever,and you think, Oh, my gosh, what was that? You don't want to go back and findthat specific spot in the episode that you're listening to. So you can go andfind it and just scroll through a transcript. So I hope you enjoy those. And itdoes make sure that I put all the links that we mentioned because I can gothrough the transcript myself and find them and then put them in the shownotes.

Heather Bayer

I hope you enjoyed that. I go to Short Term Rentalz at leastonce a week to read the latest news, what's going on around the globe. And itdoes give that wider perspective for me as a broadcaster. It helps me to seethe wider picture when I'm interviewing anybody. And it's very helpful. I thinkwe should all get that wider perspective.

Heather Bayer

So I'd just like to thank you for listening. I'm not sure Ido this enough. This huge thank you that I want to give to all those of you whocome along and listen every single week. I love to read your comments andfeedback. I may not see them all, because I know that people do feedback andwrite their reviews on different platforms that I may not see. But certainly, Ilook at the iTunes ones and it's very gratifying to know that people areactually out there listening and find what we're talking about to be useful. Soif you feel like this is a good day to give a five-star review, then I wouldlove to get one.

Heather Bayer

That's it for this week and I, of course, look forward tobeing with you again.  Stay safe, enjoyyour day and have fun.

Mike Bayer

This episode was brought to you by the kind returningsponsorship of OwnerRez. Don't forget, if you sign up, use the promotional codeVRF30, that's VRF 3 0, to get 30 % off your first three months of usage ofOwnerRez, which is an internationally recognized leader in vacation rentalsoftware. You can click the link in the description of this episode in yoursmart device or head over to vacationrentalformula.com/OwnerRez to find outmore.

Heather Bayer

It's been a pleasure as ever being with you. If there'sanything you'd like to comment on, then join the conversation on the show notesfor the episode at vacationrentalformula.com. We'd love to hear from you and Ilook forward to being with you again next week.

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